Curse

Burst Cancel · May 17, 2008, 12:01 AM // 00:01

Seed is only really good in one situation: when everyone is getting hit by lots of small-packet damage. If you think about it, it's a strange skill because its triggering condition runs counter to its effect: it needs one person getting hit frequently to be effective, but it heals the party in small packets.

If you're running tank-n-spank with a competent tank, SoA is generally more effective because it will quickly reduce damage on the tank to zero, and with a casting set can be kept up almost all the time (granted, the reduction counter resets on each cast).

In spike (large-packet) damage situations, Seed is worthless. PS, SB, and spike healing are king.

In diffuse pressure situations, no single party member is being hit often enough for Seed to do anything in its small time window.

Seed shines in Ursan teams because most of the team is frontline, and they're usually all balled and taking AoE pulse damage, which is exactly the optimal situation for Seed. It is, of course, especially good at countering skills like Spiteful.

There's no way it's the best monk skill though.

joshuarodger · May 17, 2008, 03:35 AM // 03:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

What do you do when SoL is recharging, sit around and twdile your thumbs? There are just better alternatives to Seed of life.
And if your whole party members are standing in AoE, you should rage at them or flag them if they are heros. Seriously if your whole team suddenly is getting pressuried that hard in PvE then you are doing something wrong. I never find myself in a situation where half my team is going down.

have you monked in DoA with an ursan team? generally teams take out monks first. you have 3-6 people all standing adjacent to each other spiking down one enemy. 1 or 2 of the eles in the city cast chain lightning. AoE damage. it's not uncommon. i've monked in DoA for a while now and it happens once or twice each run. am i the only one that's ever experienced this??? i would like you to show me where i said SoL is the only skill i use. it's situational, so no, while it's down i don't just twiddle my thumbs. i monk.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

and for the record there are no pve skills which are of use to a monk

like most non-elite skills it's a useful very useful skill in certain situations. i will say again that i have seen half of my teams' bars go from half full to completely full just from this skill. it can be a 300 point party heal when used effectively. i will admit that i don't use it very often anywhere other than elite areas and upper level HM areas. and even then i still only use it when i'm with a group of ursans...usually. don't give me any ursan is for noobs who can't play crap, because i happen to feel the same way. the problem is that ursans rule the PvE world right now and getting a balanced team who coordinate properly, outside of your own guildmates, is nearly impossible.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

Seriously if your whole team suddenly is getting pressuried that hard in PvE then you are doing something wrong. I never find myself in a situation where half my team is going down.

so while playing PvE, with a pug or H/H, you've never experienced a party wipe?? you've never been in a situation where 3 or 4 group members are dead?? that's a little hard to believe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

SoR, Dwaynas Sorrow on an MM hell even Heal Party is better and less situational than Seed of Life.

SoR i'm assuming is shield of regeneration as opposed to sig of rejuvenation. i can't think of many situations where i would choose this skill as my elite and it doesn't even do the same thing as SoL so you can't really compare them. as you said earlier SoA or prot spirit can do this just about as well. Dwayna's Sorrow is a very good skill now that it was fixed but as i said earlier, Ursan rules PvE now and there aren't many MMs in an Ursan team, but if i am going with a balanced team i would most likely use this on my hero or ask the MM to use it but i would never carry this myself. Heal Party cannot give you 300 health for every party member with only 5E and 1/4sec cast. you use heal party 3 times for a 300 point party-wide heal and you just cost yourself at least 30 E in most cases. (GoLE-5E, HP-5E, HP-5E, HP15E)

SoL is very situational. you will never hear me say it isn't. you said "and for the record there are no pve skills which are of use to a monk" and i say there are times where this one, at least, is useful. i don't need to use it very often, so the 25s recharge isn't that big of a deal. there have been many times where it didn't necessarily save my party, but did save me a ton of energy. and there are times when it did probably save my party. yes i have a high E set, but if i never have to use it again, i'll be a happy camper.

I D E L E T E D I · May 17, 2008, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Burst Cancel summed it up pretty nicely. In a front line heavy team I can see its use, but then again I hardly ever PuG especially UB, and when I do i usually go with the teams that know HB Monks are bad(which hardly ever happens), plus I will still choose HP over SoL because Situational Skills are always bad. Monk bars are already tight as hell, you dont need to reduce their skill bars by more skill and choosing a crappy Party Heal

SoR is Song of Restoration.

Since WoH got buffed a couple of months back its what i have pretty much exclusively used, and on the rare occasions my team did stand in big damage AoE i cleaned it up with RoF, PS and WoH on a 40/40 set.

Its true that HP won't give you that instant 300HP Party Heal but if your whole Party is suddenly taking 300 damage each, you have royally screwed up in Pre Protting any damage and if you are playing HB monk then your team members are all pretty dumb to stand in AoE, even for people who play UB.

Bowstring Badass · May 17, 2008, 08:50 AM // 08:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yichi

/win thread

stupid 12 char bullshit

That wouldnt be win if the skill didnt get nerfed like it did.

I D E L E T E D I · May 17, 2008, 01:09 PM // 13:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bowstring Badass

That wouldnt be win if the skill didnt get nerfed like it did.

But it did get nerfed, learn to adapt. And let the UB Monks think that big numbers makes the good monks.

Chthon · May 17, 2008, 04:06 PM // 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Seed is only really good in one situation: when everyone is getting hit by lots of small-packet damage. If you think about it, it's a strange skill because its triggering condition runs counter to its effect: it needs one person getting hit frequently to be effective, but it heals the party in small packets.

If you're running tank-n-spank with a competent tank, SoA is generally more effective because it will quickly reduce damage on the tank to zero, and with a casting set can be kept up almost all the time (granted, the reduction counter resets on each cast).

In spike (large-packet) damage situations, Seed is worthless. PS, SB, and spike healing are king.

In diffuse pressure situations, no single party member is being hit often enough for Seed to do anything in its small time window.

Seed shines in Ursan teams because most of the team is frontline, and they're usually all balled and taking AoE pulse damage, which is exactly the optimal situation for Seed. It is, of course, especially good at countering skills like Spiteful.

There's no way it's the best monk skill though.

This pretty much sums it up. I might add that the other time Seed is particularly useful is when you have a bonder, because that can connect a "everyone is getting hit" situation that could use Seed to a "1 target is taking a lot of hits" situation that makes Seed work.

moko · May 19, 2008, 10:16 PM // 22:16

sorry, done.

also divine you could have just done it. -_- lazy tard

joshuarodger · May 20, 2008, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

But it did get nerfed, learn to adapt. And let the UB Monks think that big numbers makes the good monks.

what was the skill description before the nerf?

btw, thanks moko

Kale Ironfist · May 20, 2008, 03:29 AM // 03:29

Then: 10 energy, 1 activation, 5..10 duration, 20 recharge.
Now: 5 energy, 1/4 activation, 1..5 duration, 25 recharge.

I D E L E T E D I · May 20, 2008, 08:31 AM // 08:31

Seeing the Old Description is making me realize it was sort of bad back then too. I must have been aweful back when SoL was in its initial form.
The only skill I would consider with that recharge is Aegis, its not situational like SoL, where as SoL is extremly situational even in its old form.
I would advice people to stay away from that skill.

P.S Moko how did you find out my IGN, you been stalking me

Thanks alot anyways <3

secret mod powaa

Ranger of the abyss · May 20, 2008, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by I D E L E T E D I

wow i am an autofail monk

seed of life is crap imo 25 second recharge? no thanks. SoA does the job of protecting a person under heavy fire far better

so so true, i hate SoL but my monks think it pwns, everyone is auto with HB monks without an ursan team. People are too ursanified these days.

MagmaRed · May 20, 2008, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Only good time to use Seed of Life is on a Bond Monk. Because damage will be spread out across the whole team, the effects make it trigger too little. A Bond Monk will take damage (Life Bond ftw) when any team member is hit though. Unless using a tank to gain and hold aggro, the damage will be too spread out for SoL to do its job. If it is a tank holding aggro, then there isn't a need for party wide healing. This means Healing Seed does the job better.

MirkoTeran · May 20, 2008, 02:58 PM // 14:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagmaRed

Only good time to use Seed of Life is on a Bond Monk.

If you are using bonder you have other bigger problems then SoL. Like posted a few times before, SoL has its uses here and there, but its far from what I would call best monk skill.

natural_Causes · May 20, 2008, 03:06 PM // 15:06

<--- Uses it in FoW on Ursans hexed w/SS

isamu kurosawa · May 20, 2008, 03:09 PM // 15:09

[[Seed of life] was pretty useful before both it and [[angelic bond] where nerfed.

It was pretty much easy mode playing monk with just H/H taking a hero para and running a martial team.

ender6 · May 20, 2008, 06:14 PM // 18:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by natural_Causes

<--- Uses it in FoW on Ursans hexed w/SS

Yeah, been doing some HM FoW runs with some alliance members lately. Their solution like everyone else's was to run 2 HB monk backline with GoLE/HP/SoL/HS--and that is how they defeat mass SS.

Then I came along and ran a divert hexes* monk, (also a cure hex/smite hex/remove hex monk variation), and SS was no longer a problem. I noticed the other monk kept using SoL upon recharge, was sorta funny/sad.

PvE is full of brain-dead builds; on the other hand it provides a nice social respite from the intensity of PvP.

*Yay! I finally found a use for that elite.

Tyla · May 20, 2008, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Divert Hexes is actually quite good, although I believe it's effect should be similar to Restore Conditions. A hex version of RC!

Age · May 20, 2008, 09:19 PM // 21:19

^The only difference is that RC is target other ally and is at 5e as opposed to divert being target self as well as costing 10e.

ender6 · May 20, 2008, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

^The only difference is that RC is target other ally and is at 5e as opposed to divert being target self as well as costing 10e.

LOL -- two big differences.

Tyla · May 20, 2008, 09:49 PM // 21:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

^The only difference is that RC is target other ally and is at 5e as opposed to divert being target self as well as costing 10e.

I'm not comparing.

I'm hoping that Divert turns into a hex version of RC.